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The Following is the beginings of a thread on the Empire:TW Forums i think exemplifies the issues with the game and this companies management in general.


Author
HenryClinton
CA please make the "Naval game enhancement" an optional upgrade through steam
Posts: 22
07/30/09 09:18:01
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I am quite concerned about the "naval enhancement:" proposal to give ships of the line shorter range (and less accurate) guns than smaller ships (especially sloops)! This makes no sense as only the bigger ships could mount the bigger guns with the longer range and you wouldn't put your worst gunners and officers on your best ships! I have no problem with the smaller ships being more manueverable than the larger ships. Why is CA concerned that there are not enough smaller ships in the battles? If that is a concern, why not just make the smaller ships cheaper and the larger ships more expensive? Implementing a "rock, scissors, paper" concept into navy battles will not be an improvement if it is done by implementing wildly inaccurate changes. It appears I am not the only one concerned about the proposed "naval gameplay enhancement." Why not make it an optional upgrade?

#1
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Posts: 180
07/30/09 09:23:42
Yeah i agree with the bigger ships bigger guns should have bigger range and accuracy. But there already is a naval enhancement discussion thread.
#2
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Posts: 179
07/30/09 16:13:43
Yeah, how's that going to turn up in multiplayer? No thank you.

#3
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Posts: 48
07/30/09 20:22:16
It's pretty dumb. I'm having a hard time understanding why they think it's such a big issue, and why they think the proposed changes would be an acceptable solution. Isn't the fact that a small ship can outmaneuver and outrun a larger ship enough of an advantage? They're also much, much cheaper. So yeah... what's the problem? And if there is a problem, why can't it be fixed by modifiying other in-game stats in more authentic and non-gamebreaking ways? Very bad idea, both historically and from a game-play perspective. Frigates and certain small vessels will emerge victorious (after very long, tedious, and unauthentic battles), while most other ships will literally be left in the dust... sea spray, whatever. I.E... Ship of the line: Pros: Can destroy anything it can catch Can take a lot of damage before sinking Cons: Can't catch anything Will take a lot of damage before sinking *yawn*

#4
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Posts: 14
07/30/09 20:48:15
Yeah it sucks i know. There has already been the big outcry and CA frankly said they know what's better for us and they're doing it anyway. While they're at it though i want them to give my generals mana and spells so they have a greater role on the 18th century battle field. In addition firelock will need a bigger role also so they can go around and collect souls of the dead to provide a boost to your generals mana level. It's not exactly historically accurate i know but i'm having to make this sacrifice for a better game play experience for all Total War fans. :)

#5
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Posts: 48
07/30/09 23:51:16
How about giving ships of the line the ability to summon creatures of sailor lore? Sirens could soothe the crew of enemy ships, causing them to stay still long enough for the ships of the line to catch up to them. Krakens could appear from the water, crippling enemy ships. Bring in Charybdis and Scylla from Homer's writings, etc. Age of Mythology: Total War! Hyperbole... maybe. But we're already making realism walk the plank to satisfy gameplay issues, so why not take it to the extreme... make it interesting? Or, you know, fix the issue in a way that makes more sense. The OP's suggestion of price/upkeep makes sense, or modifying the other stats slightly to accomodate whatever is broken in the view of developers. It's that or sea creatures, imo.


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Posts: 208
07/31/09 00:05:19
I second the original poster!


Shireknight
#7
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Posts: 8816
07/31/09 00:23:43
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CA are not just waiting until the patch is ready and then throwing this addition in as the very last thing you know. Clearly Jack and other CA testers have already installed these changes in their current games and they are working just fine otherwise the naval changes would be scrapped and the chances are they would never have even been mentioned in the first place so lets wait until WE get our hands on patch 1.4 and see what we think then shall we? before we start dismissing an idea that no-one here has even so much as seen in action yet.


#8
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Posts: 1709
07/31/09 00:35:09
I like these new changes! And stop being haters!!

Elyrioth

#9
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Posts: 2283
07/31/09 01:03:59
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Given the sheer opposition to the change across multiple forums surely CA need to realize they need to give more details if they think we are wrong, or take what users actually want into account. I have seen CA backtrack before hopefully they will this time. I can't understand why they are working on unnecessary and unwanted changes when they should be working on nothing except the broken AI and Diplomacy. I am sure if CA do not make it an optional update a mod will come out rapidly to roll back the changes they made.......
Last Edited By: Elyrioth 07/31/09 01:09:02. Edited 2 times.
PDAquinas

#10
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Posts: 84
07/31/09 01:47:03
Elyrioth wrote:
I can't understand why they are working on unnecessary and unwanted changes when they should be working on nothing except the broken AI and Diplomacy. +1 I can't be alone that I have shelved the game after desperately trying to forgive it's many problems for too long. I am a little stumped as to why they would be devoting time and energy to 'fixing' something that was working better than most other main aspects of the game. Unless, as I have seen a few posts suggesting, the game really is aimed at kids there is no way for me to get my head round how they think they have sold any form of strategy game. The AI and diplomacy issues leave it as a glorified battle simulator with issues combined with a broken 'campaign' walkthrough.
Alizea1

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Posts: 48
07/31/09 02:10:20
Elyrioth wrote:
Given the sheer opposition to the change across multiple forums surely CA need to realize they need to give more details if they think we are wrong, or take what users actually want into account. I have seen CA backtrack before hopefully they will this time. I can't understand why they are working on unnecessary and unwanted changes when they should be working on nothing except the broken AI and Diplomacy. Amen. That should be priority #1. If they don't fix those issues, patch 1.4 fails. Sure we can wait for the patch to come out to comment, but what's wrong with speculation given that we have some of the details which we know are a bit far-fetched? Why were those details provided if not to give us an idea of changes to come? You don't always need to have your hands on something to have an idea of what it will be like. Also, whatever changes go live are unlikely to be changed, reverted for quite some time. This seems like the perfect time to speak out against it. I've seen plenty of things go live, let alone just make it to the testing phase, that were not good ideas for a game. I feel this is one of them, and obviously a lot of people agree. It's not a matter of "hating"... quite the contrary, it's speaking out on behalf of a game you like. I would not even be on these forums if I was not enjoying this game & had no desire to see it improve.

Master of War

#12
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Posts: 208
07/31/09 04:55:51
PDAquinas wrote:
I am a little stumped as to why they would be devoting time and energy to 'fixing' something that was working better than most other main aspects of the game. Unless, as I have seen a few posts suggesting, the game really is aimed at kids there is no way for me to get my head round how they think they have sold any form of strategy game. The AI and diplomacy issues leave it as a glorified battle simulator with issues combined with a broken 'campaign' walkthrough. Halleluja! I agree on the first one - naval battles are one of the features of this game that actually work! Why bother making any changes!!!! And even more so on the second one!! So true. And in the words of Metallica and so many others: Sad but true.

HenryClinton

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Posts: 22
07/31/09 05:41:04
Ingkala - What's going to happen to multiplayer when legions of players won't be playing online because they don't want the naval "enhancement" that comes with the new patch? If CA plows forward with this concept over the objections of the bulk of its most vocal fans many will be left with a hard choice: Do I live with the game in its present state including bugs in trade, the inability to kick a common enemy out of an ally's port, some flaws in the AI and a broken fast forward button (it kind of speaks to the overall quality of the game that it is otherwise good enough that I am still playing with these issues) or do I download a patch that might fix some or all of these problems, but that may completely ruin the naval experience? At least if the "naval enhancement" was optional the choice would come down to only this: Do I care enough about the ability to play multiplayer that I will live with the "naval enhancement"?

Fencible

#14
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Posts: 76
07/31/09 08:52:12
HenryClinton wrote:
I am quite concerned about the "naval enhancement:" proposal to give ships of the line shorter range (and less accurate) guns than smaller ships (especially sloops)! This makes no sense as only the bigger ships could mount the bigger guns with the longer range and you wouldn't put your worst gunners and officers on your best ships! I have no problem with the smaller ships being more manueverable than the larger ships. Totally agree! Proposed changes ruin the naval game for me, unless they can assure us that their changes can be reversed by modders. Sorry to all those who prefer adding magic bonus laser guns to sloops to make things more 'fun' - but I just can't agree with you. It does NOT make the game more fun for the rest of us - it cheapens and degrades it. Sloops are already too powerful for no visible or logical reason! There is always 'Warcraft', and dozens of other such wearisome games for those who prefer total fantasy 'fun'. I prefer that 'Empire' remain an alternate history sort of game, not an alternate physics fantasy world. Sincerely, Fencible

ShadeWar

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Posts: 99
07/31/09 09:09:47
Wasn't there another game that released a patch called 'the NGE' anyone remember what happened to that game, specifically what the fans did?

EQ Snarf

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Posts: 63
07/31/09 09:15:16
While I'm not opposed to the changes (I'm sure modders will undo the changes) I do agree that there are better things to spend their time working on.

Blackula

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Posts: 9
07/31/09 11:49:27
ShadeWar wrote:
Wasn't there another game that released a patch called 'the NGE' anyone remember what happened to that game, specifically what the fans did? Haha yeah...this other game was Star Wars Galaxies. I started playing it after the NGE hit but what happened in a nutshell was SOE made massive changes to the core of the game. It caused a majority of the playbase to quit & the game never really recovered.



/END Post (as of 7/31 1500 Eastern time)

I suspect this thread will go to the land of locked and/or deleted as do most posts of a less than complentary nature on this forum.

Anyways, I promised one of those Nazi's i wouldnt post on their forums anymore so therefore...

The proposed changes and time-sink those still working on this project from Creative Assembly (Sega rather, CA claims "we are one! haha) are unneeded and pointless as well as ridiculus for Multiplayer vrs purposes. As this thread is headed in a amusing direction of making examples of what other games have done I must say thus' There is one key difference, with Empire, they already have our money. Its not like we can get it back.



Shireknight- you sir, are a fuckwit kiss-ass. The same people you are constantly so religiously defending also released this game in the laughable state it STILL FUCKING IS IN 6 MONTHS LATER. And they even called it "finished" and defended it as so. so fucking funny.

It must be cheap to bribe game mags & reviewers...or perhaps there really was some benefit to being in Mother Sega's pocket.

{this post has not been proof read or spell checked in any way whatsoever, obviously. :) }

So...where the are you CA?

The (now changed from "daily") updates thread on the Empire:TW front has been woefully silent as of late. Why? you might ask, well thats a damn fine question i say! Who knows, the Nazi's..er Mods over on the forums have been active as rabbits fucking on ecstacy but what's new there?

My narcissistic ass thinks the guy in charge of the budget has redirected key personnel on to new projects. Oh there is likely still a fair deal of work going on to Empire, however I bet dollars to dimes that some deadline has been reached and word passed up to JohnSuit about how "great the game has become since its fantastic release" and how it really "doesn't need much more work." That was sarcasm for those unable to discover such things in text btw. The assholes making that report are just trying to keep their jobs after the bunglefuck that was and still is Empire: Total War. As long as the suits don't start visiting the forums on a daily basis you assclowns in charge should be fine.

But i really don't blame you, with Sega running things you really haven't got any choice but to try and survive by covering your ass at all times and lime-lighting bullshit like the release state & current condition of the game because you were in reality unable to meet whatever asinine deadline that brother-corporate set for your team. Welcome to the corporate world.

So far Empire has ultimately been a great-hidden fiasco in the gaming world. Its really amazing how much lying, deceit, and borderline banditry has gone on with this game and ,seemingly other than the fans, none has noticed.

ultimately, fans, DO NOT BUY ANY "bonus units" for empire!!!! just download the Additional-units mod for FREE with far better, more varied, and far more interesting units than CA is trying to trick you into buying when they still have not produced the game that they promised & advertised publicly 6th months AFTER RELEASE!

Empire:TW, yes the AI sucks that much...

Todays amusement brought to you by the comedians over at Creative Assembly.

http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/sreply/745519/t/The-Daily-Update.html

So! This game, which has been repeatedly claimed as "finished", has such poorly functioning AI that they are removing a very large complex portion of it to try out a new untested method. Sweet! so can we "officially" call ourselves public beta testers who were dumb enough to pay for the privilege now? Personally I've known I was beta testing a product for quite awhile now but every-time you think CA must surely be done sinking lower they continue to surprise!

The question I'm left with is, if Empire:TW is finished as the Dev's claim and has such a massive and complex AI system driving it, then why months into public release when the game is STILL at best in a 0.90 state are we replacing CA's grand creation with a brand new (very likely buggy) AI?

I would ask this question on their forums, my only method for speaking to the developers directly, yet such question are not welcome there.

Fucking lier's and spinmaster's.

Scumbag Game Companies

Today's rant is brought to you by the letter S, for the Shit game companies knowingly release to the public unproperly tested and malfunctional.

My specific target of bitching is Empire: Total War.
CreativeAssembly released E:TW far to early. If you've bought this game and assuming you were one of the supposed many it worked for, then you already know this. This game is plagued by so many crash to desktop bugs that I have still not been able to successfully complete a Grand Campaign. The crashes are hardly the only thing wrong however, this game is also loaded with deficiencies such as limited troop varieties, piss-poor battlemap pathing,and some of the worst AI to ever grace a professionally produced strategy game. I mean really folks, you (CA) harp on how great your in house testing and Sega testing is but yet nobody noticed the AI couldn't even commit to a sea-born invasion? Same goes for the half dozen unit selection crash bugs.

Now, I'm well aware that the previous paragraph is hardly a revelation to anyone who has followed the game but had to get it outa the way!

Whats pissing me off specifically for today is this latest set of updates from the folks in charge of ETW and more directly this post.

http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/sreply/744381/t/The-Daily-Update.html

Oh I'm not whining about the belief some have that they're working on "extra content" rather than fixxing major issues in the game, what I'm pissed about is that these jackanapes are calling these "free units" and treating it like they're doing something nice for us, the gamers. The only thing they're doing is releasing stuff that should have been in the game from the beginning but got left out in the rush. This is a joke. I mean whats next...they going to release the Mughals as a playable faction and claim it as a bonus also? (just fyi as surely not everyone is aware, the Mughals are almost completely done already in the existing game but its locked away.)

Its frightening as a consumer that games in such a poor state of implayability can get such high reviews from game mags and web pages, but i suppose that's what the companies like CA/Sega pay them for. You can say it doesn't happen if you want to, but long ago people notice that writers who give poor reviews on high budget games find themselves offered less opportunities to write about others in the future. Always go by the public opinions on games kids!

Hopefully one day soon legislators will step in and force gaming companies and the vendors that distribute them to accept returns on opened malfunctional materials, only then will scumbag companies be broken from the concept of cashing in on unfinished/poorly tested products with the plan to just patch everything up later.

So it begins...

adieu to all censors!

and fuck you.

So that's how he starts this eh? In the words of Isaac Hayes: "you daaaaamn right"

I've always been one of those guys who thought blogs were kinda lame, like myspace lame, yet here we find ourselves. The reason for this great travesty that is my writing ability is I'm tired of not being able to vent properly on a public forum. I mean, I would not be there unless i had something i felt needed to be said right? I obviously must care about the topic hmm? I have little enough free time these latter days and I'm not posting often vehement feelings on mostly gaming forums for jollys! So, now that you know why I'm here, then the only thing that remains is why the hell are you here?!

If you are indeed still here, I can only hope its because just "maybe" you too feel passionate about the subject of whatever rant you peruse.